iPhone + Flash ... Wont happen soon if at all

Posted by Joshua in Technology on June 17, 2008

Anyone wondered why the iPhone doesnt have the flash player on it?  Something so simple, small and that has so many wide spread users?  It's simple... Apple doesnt want to have competing software on it's products.

Read this for yourself and please feel free to comment your thoughts/opinions.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/14/cocoa-for-windows-flash-killer-sproutcore/
http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/16/apple-adopting-sproutcore-for-web-applications/

PS: The first link talks about the Flash player being Proprietary... does this guy know about the openflash that was announced? I guess not...

  1. David

    #1 by David - June 17, 2008 at 10:57 AM

    Agreed - riddled with inaccuracies. I'll go one further and say that the main reason for not having Flash on the iPhone is simply down to Steve Jobs hubris. Someone made something with a better experience than he did, and it hurts. The iPhone users want it, Adobe want it, but Jobs doesn't.

    Cheers,

    Davo
    Reply
  2. David

    #2 by David - June 17, 2008 at 11:03 AM

    ...oh, while we're at it, sproutCore is a self described javascript framework, so it competes with other AJAX frameworks, not Flash or Silverlight. It would be nice if he could get at least THAT part right!

    Cheers
    Reply
  3. Josh

    #3 by Josh - June 17, 2008 at 11:16 AM

    ya agreed
    Reply
  4. Matt Giger

    #4 by Matt Giger - June 17, 2008 at 11:35 AM

    I know for a fact that Flash 9 would be a major battery drainer and chipset warmer. I think that until Flash can place restrictions on processor usage, it is not going to pass muster with Jobs.
    Reply
  5. James

    #5 by James - June 17, 2008 at 1:33 PM

    Also, due to the nature of Flash and the nature of the input interface with the iPhone, enabling the Flash player on the iPhone would open up an easy access point to develop RIA's specifically for it. Given that Apple has finally opened up the iPhone with the SDK for developers and their App store setup to control the content as well as pull in a percentage of the profit it is understandable why they don't want to open up that door.
    Reply
  6. Josh

    #6 by Josh - June 17, 2008 at 1:45 PM

    Problem with that strategy is that Microsoft tried something similiar with their Windows Media Player and they ended up paying a lot of money.

    I foresee something similiar happening here... anti-trust.

    Just calling it like I see it.
    Reply
  7. Josh

    #7 by Josh - June 17, 2008 at 1:50 PM

    @Matt,

    Ya if the flash player sucks battery life for sure then I see your point. But if that is true what about all the apps that already run Flash on mobile devices? Do we know how the Flash Player is affecting those devices?
    Reply
  8. Matt Giger

    #8 by Matt Giger - June 17, 2008 at 2:50 PM

    Josh, I believe that those mobiles use Flash Lite which is a lot lower powered.
    Reply
  9. Matt

    #9 by Matt - June 30, 2008 at 11:35 AM

    Jobs basically said that the version of Flash that is available to put on the iPhone isn't good enough for the iPhone. To just say "Flash on the iPhone" is to be rather vague. Jobs was definitely speaking about Flash Lite, and I totally agree with him that its not good enough. I have no doubt in my mind that if the iPhone could handle the processing power to run most Flash content out there then Jobs wouldn't hesitate. But we all know that the phone just simply can't handle it. Are there any mobile devices on the market that include a full featured Flash Player 9?
    Reply
  10. Jason The Saj

    #10 by Jason The Saj - July 21, 2008 at 12:36 PM

    "I know for a fact that Flash 9 would be a major battery drainer and chipset warmer. I think that until Flash can place restrictions on processor usage, it is not going to pass muster with Jobs."

    I know for a fact that a lot of people's facts are hogwash...so if you KNOW FOR A FACT. Show me your test results of running Flash on the iPhone. Otherwise....

    There are TWO reasons why Apple doesn't want Flash on the iPhone.

    I. Because Flash competes (and has largely kicked their butt) on the media front (music, video, etc.) is more often delivered by Flash than any other format, including Apple's beloved QuickTime (updated twice daily for your protection).

    II. Because Flash is one of the few technologies that can be easily adapted to a touch-interface RIA. And they don't want people writing web apps or AIR apps that would compete with their store, and more so, compete with their control of how their product is used.

    Frankly, let us the consumers decide what we need!


    "I have no doubt in my mind that if the iPhone could handle the processing power to run most Flash content out there then Jobs wouldn't hesitate."

    I disagree. If Flash could outperform the Apple iPhone SDK with 10x performance. Steve Jobs would still conjure up an excuse not to allow it on the iPhone.
    Reply
  11. Matt Giger

    #11 by Matt Giger - July 21, 2008 at 1:09 PM

    I know for a fact that Flash 9 is a battery drainer and a chipset warmer on my laptop for certain applications. For some reason Jason thinks that the laws of physics are different on the iPhone.
    Reply
  12. David

    #12 by David - July 21, 2008 at 2:01 PM

    Matt - you know for a fact, or you suspect for a fact? Not denying that when using Flash it will use more memory, more power, etc than when you're not, but is it any worse than quicktime? If so, how much worse? Those would be "facts".

    David
    Reply
  13. Matt Giger

    #13 by Matt Giger - July 21, 2008 at 3:38 PM

    Try exploring my soon to be released flash app on a laptop for 10 minutes:
    http://earthbrowser.com/media/ebtest/

    I'm not saying that everything will use that much processing power, but some users would complain about their battery life or pants catching on fire or something... :-)
    Reply
  14. David

    #14 by David - July 21, 2008 at 8:19 PM

    Well, I don't think its a good idea to go to the lowest common denominator in any argument, and this seems to be a great example of "pushing the boundaries" in Flash (I'd have some other choice words for it, but I'll leave it at that ;-)

    Look, I know from my own iPhone experience that not having Flash has been a problem - there are a lot of sites out there that use Flash for navigation - a local aquarium I go to with my daughter, for example.

    I can't believe there isn't a way to make this work - make the user press a region to activate the flash app, or something. Work with Adobe on it. I personally just don't think Jobs WANTS to do that. He could if he wanted, but he just doesn't want to.

    Cheers,

    David
    Reply
  15. Josh

    #15 by Josh - July 22, 2008 at 10:19 AM

    I think some are missing the point here. Its not a technical issue, flash lite could be used, however since the iPhone uses a full blown browser flash lite wont support some of those apps that users would browse to.

    Another big issue here isnt technical at all. Its simply bc if they allow a full flown flash player on the iPhone, all of the Flex developers out there would start creating apps that would be outside of the AppStores control, basically Apple cant approve the apps that run on their phone and they cant get a percentage of the sales of the application.

    Its as simple as that, like I said before it could be a potential anti-trust issue. They created a platform, now they are restricting the competition by having an App Store and restricting players like the Flash Player that can deliver equal applications when compared to CoCoa Apps.

    Its a slippery slope, i really dont believe its a technical issue, those can be overcome when you get the right people to attack the problem.
    Reply
  16. Josh

    #16 by Josh - August 18, 2008 at 12:52 PM

    I heard from a little birdie that we may just get Flex level apps on the iPhone... not confirmed though, however it was from a pretty good resource.
    Reply
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